It can be shocking to hear people contemplate suspending a kindergarten student. Ruth and Becca discuss whether suspension helps students grow academically and become mentally fit. This is a complicated topic, and at the end there are still more questions to explore.
Show Notes
Choice Literacy sponsored this episode.
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Quotables
“Oftentimes, we teach the way we were taught.”
“If kids could make a different choice, they would make a different choice.”
“Kids are exhibiting these behaviors because they’re giving us what they can”
“The majority of the time kids are doing what they can to express what they’re feeling.”
“We have to stop and look at the root of what they are showing us.”
“They need the connection to help them regulate so that they can learn.”
“The way a child is acting is really just the way that they know how to interact with the world.”
“How can we connect with the child and help them see a different way to interact with the world?”
“We want to change behavior.”
“Stop and reflect upon what is leading up to these behaviors.”
“Usually extreme behaviors are a call for help.”
“They’re looking for ways to show they know how to interact with the world”
“How can I help this child know they belong, connect, feel a sense of connection, and then be able to make some different choices about how we’re going to interact with the world?”
“There are so many ways that kids need to be nourished in order to be able to be successful and positively interact with the world.”
“As educators, we can only control so much.”
“When families know you’re working with them, and you’re willing to collaborate with them, and you’re honest, they’re often willing to jump in and do the work with you.”
“There are all different kinds of ways to interact with the world, my way is not the right way, it’s just one way.”
“What do we want our kids to know about how to respond in these situations?”
“Everyone has a hard time sometimes. We need to keep everyone safe, AND we value everyone as a person.”
“We’re going to come together to figure out how to function safely AND keep everyone a part of our community.”
“We value standing in the hard with people. It starts now.”
“We can’t shelter them; we can keep them safe in these situations, but the reality is we have to navigate them together.”
“It’s not what we signed up for but it’s the reality we’re in.”
“What will help them interact with the world in a stronger way than what they are?”
Let’s Be Social
Transcript (AI-Generated)
You don’t expect to hear a conversation or hear people thinking about suspending five-year-olds from school. And you and I have kind of been talking through, like, what leads to this? What gets people to the point of thinking that suspension and removing children from the classroom is the right answer for a five-year-old?
We’ve been thinking a lot about suspending kids and whether this action helps kids grow. This is a complicated topic with many nuances. At the end, we found ourselves with even more questions.
This is Sticky Hope.
So we have been talking about kindergartners and suspension, which just has kind of spiraled into a big conversation and something that we keep saying, Oh, I want to talk more about this. I want to talk more about this.
Yeah. So I’m so excited to be able to talk more about this finally, because I feel like I’ve been texting you about this and the situations that have led up to this conversation a lot recently. And as I’ve prepared to sit down and have this conversation, I’ve realized the idea of suspension in kindergarten isn’t a new one for me.
It’s something I’ve faced over the last seven years of teaching kindergarten on multiple occasions, which is shocking to hear, right? You don’t expect to hear a conversation or hear people thinking about suspending five-year-olds from school. And you and I have kind of been talking through, like, what leads to this?
What gets people to the point of thinking that suspension and removing children from the classroom is the right answer for a five-year-old? And we’ve kind of come to think, like, it’s almost a last-ditch attempt, right? Like, I don’t know what else to do to help this child, and I’m either exhausted or exasperated or something extreme has just happened.
And so this suspension, this is the right answer. It’s all I’ve got left. And even when you’re in that moment, it feels shocking, right?
Like, when you’re in the moment of, like, having these conversations about how to support kids who have done things as simple, although not okay, but as small as pushing another kid’s tray off of the lunch table repeatedly to a child who literally walked up and punched another child in the face, leaving a shiner by the end of recess, you know? Like, there’s just all of these extremes, and it usually is repeated behaviors, right?
So, Becca, I was thinking, you know, like, these behaviors, sometimes we’re like, I can’t believe that just happened. And that’s what, you know, like, sometimes our conversation was like, I can’t believe that happened. And we’re like, I can’t believe we’re talking about suspension now.
But part of that, I think, is also, oftentimes we teach the way we were taught, or we’re experiencing school the way that we experience school. And it used to be like this idea of, oh, no, I’m going to be suspended, would be enough that kids might change their behaviors. But what we’re starting to see are behaviors that, you know, like if kids can make a different choice, they would make a different choice.
But what’s happening instead?
Right, and so I think that kids are leading, are exhibiting these behaviors because they’re giving us the best they can, right? And so I am a firm believer that, like the majority of the time, kids are doing what they can to express what they’re feeling. And if they don’t have the words or the ability to regulate enough to communicate those feelings appropriately, they do so in less appropriate ways, right?
Antisocial ways that usually comes in aggressive behavior or destructive behavior. And as teachers, as educators, we have to stop and look at the root of what they’re showing us as opposed to come down in a punitive way. Because when kids are exhibiting these behaviors to show that they’re dysregulated and they need help, they, one, aren’t going to be responsive to any kind of punitive response.
They are going to have a bigger reaction. And they need the connection to help them regulate so that they can learn. And so when the child has come in from recess after punching another child in the face, like, yeah, sure, they probably need some time away from peers, but not time alone.
And they need an adult there who’s calm and regulated and willing to process with them and then help them reenter into that classroom where the other kids are ready to welcome that child back and have those conversations.
Yeah, so I think we’re thinking through, really, right? Like, that behavior, the way a child is acting is really, like, that’s how they know to interact with the world. So, as opposed to thinking, you’re like, that it’s behavior that needs to be corrected, we’re like, how can we connect with a child and then help them see a different way to interact with the world?
So, you know, it’s not true for all kids, but there’s a lot of kids who maybe haven’t lived a real well-nourished life coming into kindergarten. And so, the way that they solve problems is sometimes by shoving someone or punching or by throwing things or by screaming and cussing. Like, these are the things that they know about interacting with the world.
And so, when that happens and it comes into our schools, like, it can be exhausting, and I’m feeling disheartened, and like I’m doing the same thing over and over, and it feels like there’s no change. And then what we find ourselves, it feels like suddenly, but sometimes not so suddenly, months into the year, like, should we suspend the student? And you and I oftentimes are falling on the side of, like, that’s not going to help change behavior.
So, if we want to change behavior, I think it does take, like, the whole school, but sometimes we’re not in places where we’re having whole school conversations. We’re talking about it in, you know, like, it’s my classroom. Am I the only adult here?
And how then am I going to begin managing some of these surprising behaviors, behaviors that are making me, like, say, I can’t believe that just happened. So, what are some ways that we can manage that in our classrooms, or what are we doing? You know, you recently have some kindergartners that were like, what are we doing?
And so, instead of suspending them, what can we do?
Yeah, so I think, like, the first step, usually for me is to stop and think, stop and reflect upon, like, what is leading up to these behaviors? What are the patterns in behavior that we can notice so that we can think about the supports that are needed, right? So, usually, these behaviors are a call for help, and usually something that helps is having more eyes on the situation.
And so, we typically see these bigger behaviors coming out, well, often, they’re in unstructured times, like lunch and recess and, like, specials where it’s, you know, in gym class, you’re having way more fun and given way more space to move your body more freely. And so, in those times, is there an extra adult or two that we can put into that situation to be a supportive and connecting adult? I think you had mentioned, like, not wanting that adult to come in and be punitive and watching for every negative thing that’s happening, but an extra adult to come in and be supportive, right?
Be the positive reinforcement for all of the positive things that are happening, because that is super motivating for these kids who are really struggling. They’re looking for ways to show that they know what they’re doing, and they know how to interact with the world. And when someone can come alongside them and say, like, oh, that was a great job, like, you did it.
That’s a great job. And then, like, when something does happen, because it’s inevitable, the adults need to be able to say, like, oh, like, that wasn’t it. And if you can catch it when it was small, when it’s small, the hope is, eventually, that’s where it stops, right?
And in time, you’ll build the positive momentum a lot further than any kind of negative momentum.
I think that makes a lot of sense, you know, Becca. I was thinking about one of the kids that we adopted. They were an older kid, and we adopted them from foster care, and had a lot of aggressive behavior.
“And so, I think sometimes we hear, like, people could hear this conversation, and they’re like, but they’re not safe. And there, I think it’s really important to acknowledge, yeah, there’s times that they’re not safe. And I know for us, like, where you’re saying, like, let’s watch and see if we can stop before the behavior gets big, like, unpredictable and harmful.
And for sometimes, I just want us to acknowledge, like, it’s sometimes like, it’s just a snap, right? Like, we can sometimes not even know it, or it catches us off guard. I mean, like, we were just talking from one of the kids in your house, like, it was just this, suddenly, they’re not okay.
And in those times, we do need to be able to sometimes remove a child from a situation. So it’s not like it’s, let’s not remove them, but it’s why we know how to do restraints to keep people safe. But I think, like, the idea there is, how can I keep everybody safe, and how can I help this child know they belong, connect, feel a sense of connection, and then be able to make some different choices about how we’re going to interact with the world.
And sometimes when that conversation moves right to suspension, it feels like it’s just focused on correcting the behavior. And I’m not sure that we can, quote unquote, fix some of the behavior, because brains have often changed when kids have experienced some pretty hard situations, even before they’ve gotten to school.
“Yeah, that phrase you used, well-nourished, or that descriptor, and thinking about how kids come to school, maybe not well-nourished, is something that makes me stop and think a lot, because there’s so many ways that kids need to be nourished in order to be able to be successful in positively interacting with the world. And I feel like this could be a whole other conversation, this idea of what well-nourished life looks like for kids. But I think that as educators, we can only control so much, right?
Only what’s happening in the world of our classroom, or and sometimes a little bit further outside of that world within our school, is within our control. But another critical component in working with these kids is your relationship with the family, right? And that relationship starts on day one.
“And building every positive connection you can with that family, so that if you’re ever facing a tricky situation where a child has punched someone or is on the receiving end of that punch, you can call that family and hope and know that they’re going to be there and listening and in support of you and not super defensive of their child or in denial. Because those conversations can be super tricky too. But when families know you’re working with them and you’re willing to collaborate with them and you’re honest, they are willing to do the work and jump in with you.
Yeah, I think that’s true. And I think it goes the other way too. When you have kids in the room who are coming from well-nourished homes, and this behavior is shocking to them also, and then they’re going home and they’re telling their parents, you know, like, we just…
somebody was restrained in school today, or somebody gave somebody a black eye, that those families can, you know, fair enough, be a little concerned. But it’s that relationship that you were talking about with families and helping us all understand, like, there are all different kinds of ways to interact with the world. And just, like, my way is not the right way.
It’s just one way. And then helping everybody be able to learn to interact in ways that are safe and kind and healthy for the entire community.
Yeah, and I think you just reminded me of a conversation I had with a parent of a well-nourished child who heard about a really tricky situation that happened in our classroom that their daughter witnessed, right? Their daughter was a part of. She was safe.
And I had to evacuate my classroom. And she went home talking about what led up to that evacuation. And the parent was really concerned at first.
She was like, I don’t want my daughter exposed to this. I don’t know how to handle it. And in that moment, I had to quickly, but I had to think about what do we want our kids to know and about how to respond in these situations.
And this parent and I ended up having a really great conversation about like, none of us really know how to respond when someone’s having that hard of a time, but we don’t want the response to be, you don’t belong here, right? Because everyone has a hard time sometimes. And so, yes, we need to keep everybody safe, and we value everyone as a person.
And so, we’re gonna come together to figure out how to function safely and keep everyone a part of our community. And when I said to this parent, like, eventually she’s gonna grow up and she’s gonna get to decide, like, if she’s going to stand in the hard with people, or if she’s going to walk away when things get hard. And I know your family really likes and values standing in the hard with people.
And I think it starts now. And she and I were able to have that conversation of like, oh, like we can’t shelter them. We can keep them safe in these situations.
But the reality is, we have to navigate them together.
Yeah, that is the reality, right? And again, it’s this beautiful mess. Like, it’s not the reality that we signed up for, you know.
But it is the reality that we’re in. And being able to lean in to that heart, and just taking a step back and breathing, and then beginning to have these conversations about, well, what will help that child or that student, or this group of kids interact with the world in a stronger way than what they already are. Together, we can make a world where all children grow, mentally fit and cognitively strong.
But what about the days, and there are many, when we feel completely, totally, and undeniably disheartened? The days that threaten joy and attempt to swipe our hope. These are the days when we need tools, resources, and mostly straightforward conversations to know hope can stick, even in the stickiest situations.